Re: Health warning: - Mailing list pgsql-novice

The original problem is same as 

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40354551/pg4admin-401-unauthorized-error

https://www.postgresql-archive.org/401-Unauthorized-on-first-run-of-pgadmin4-td6029337.html

https://superuser.com/questions/1322086/how-to-fix-the-pgadmin-4-v3-0-port-number

I have done two clean operating systems  and postgres pgadmin4.

16  emails but not one response to the problem I logged for two days. 

I guess you all like to argue.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 18:47 Justin, <zzzzz.graf@gmail.com> wrote:

HI Zahid

After 16  emails I think we are getting close to  CONSTRUCTIVE  criticism and to a valid complaint, that needs to be addressed.  The point being made is, the  install scripts need some  validation code on paths, additional dependency checks, and better documentation on how the install process works for those that do not know APT, etc......

Take you points, document why the install went sideways/failed , what was done to fix it, and how these changes will fix the problem going forward..  I'm sure this will be taken care of... 

AFter 16 emails no one  knows what is wrong with the Installer,  all we know

1: it sucks,

2: see this video for proof,

3: see this link that agrees ,  

4: GUI is better

5: No one on pgadmin team can program, 

6: now for the stern lecture on good programming ..

Do you see the breakdown in communication?  There is no substance/action item with the complaint.  Its just a complaint.

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:22 PM Zahid Rahman <zahidr1000@gmail.com> wrote:

 

> But how does a GUI installer fix an issue with a path, typos, missing dependencies, or mistakes the install scripts?   Is there a Linux GUI installer that works across all the flavors of Linux, what about  BSD, or MAC,   

The answer is simpler then you think.

Look at this code . Even the though the variable is declared as Datasource with an if statement it is double checked for validation and constraint.

if (value instanceof DataSource)

I call it VALIDATION and CONSTRAINT code.

As application developers we provide drop lists where we can so we don't risk the user doing a typo. That's CONSTRAINT code. You can do same with command line argument. check for argv[1] content , don't just start execution based on the assumption the user typed correctly. I know the validation code will probably be 5 times more than the FUNCTIONAL code. That is necessary for good software.

VALIDATION / CONSTRAINT code will be far greater than functional code.

an example:

Don't just open a file .

Don't assume.

Check if the file is open first. That's validation code.

Check for path values to see if they exist , check for operating system. For example when you go to download page. You should go to download page appropriate for your operating system. That is a result of a check being made.

There is no reason why a GUI installer cant work across all *nix . Just validate the operating system then call the relevant source code.

There is no magic in programming. What will happen is exactly what you wrote will happen after you validated. If you did not validate, just started doing then that is like crossing the road without looking left or right. The user is the one who is getting run over by bus. That is to say the user has been thrown under a bus because the programmer did not look left ,right , listen.

This is my own personal view.

There are three components which make up good code or deliverable product.

FUNCTIONAL code.

VALIDATION code.

CONSTRAINT code.

I am always and sometimes for fun checking for functional code and validation. Once in a while one does come across software as a programming tool or an API which has all three components.

In your suggestion (MAC/BSD)  check for OS type then act appropriately. that's VALIDATION  code. Think of functional code without validation or constraint code as inappropriate or out of control behaviour.

Inappropriate  behaviour warrants a health warning  :)  don't you think  ?

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 16:34 Justin, <zzzzz.graf@gmail.com> wrote:

Taking this off this list.  way of topic for Postgresql  Novice

You are right testing needs to be done on a clean install and done on a not so clean systems...

But how does a GUI installer fix an issue with a path, typos, missing dependencies, or mistakes the install scripts?   Is there a Linux GUI installer that works across all the flavors of Linux, what about  BSD, or MAC,   

Pathing, system settings, and dependency hell aka DLL Hell have been around for decades,  no one has come up with a solution to this problem,  The latest attempt is to just hide the problem,  wrap everything in Virtual Environment,  Docker,  or something.   The problem does not go away it was just morphed into a new set of problems.   

Consider the language GO,   it compiles all its dependency into a single  BIN/EXE file,  NOT a new idea,  Xbase languages did that years ago, 

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 11:04 AM Zahid Rahman <zahidr1000@gmail.com> wrote:

The simple solution is that who ever is testing the pgadmin4  installation  , if they did it on a clean machine  , it would save alot of pain. 

When I worked in a software house I followed this practice every time. For every project I did a clean install. I know it is time consuming. But it is a best practice needs to be followed.

Because I knew I may have a setting or software installed from previous project , so the user environment  would be different from development environment. 

Linux still has problems. Fedora 31 has wifi driver but ubuntu doesn't so I am using USB wifi dongle with my new laptop.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 15:46 Justin, <zzzzz.graf@gmail.com> wrote:

Zahid

Open Source means Free Testing and Free code writing,  we all benefit.   You can write GUI pgadmin4 installer for  Linux

We welcome  CONSTRUCTIVE criticism  throwing up a link,  or snarky youtube video then  saying "see I'm right",  will not get traction with people it turns them off.  Remember we are doing this for FREE

Specifically how does EDB page support your position???

Enterprise DB maintains the windows installer as a give back to the Community and promote Postgresql..   Postgresql installers have come a long way over the years,  I remember a time when everything on Linux was  compile then install what a horrible amount of pain, Just getting the CD to boot  to install Linux could  take  days because of hardware issues.   

When writing criticism first step,  Document the issue, and be specific,  take screen shots, note the issue clearly then post it..  

Postgresql has several ways to note and document issues,  Mailing Lists, Wiki, IRC, create a Blog Post and post it on Planet.postgresql.org

99% of linux installers are done from the command line, and yes it goes horribly wrong at times. 

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:33 AM Adam Lipinski <ALipinski@exactal.com> wrote:

Zahid,

Please contribute, your view is important. Quoting a commercial enterprise and how they choose to spend their development resource is a moot point.

Best Regards,

 

Adam

---

From: Zahid Rahman <zahidr1000@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 11:29:41 PM
To: Gerald Cheves <gcheves@verizon.net>
Cc: pgsql-novice@lists.postgresql.org <pgsql-novice@lists.postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Health warning:

 

By support you mean I should do free tests and let you know where the problem  are.

Anyway alot of talk but fail to address the issue , why a company  "EnterpriseDB"  has provided installer.  The fact I have not received  to my original  query means you are all using the free  installer or managed to install it with sheer luck.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 15:23 Gerald Cheves, <gcheves@verizon.net> wrote:

On 12/17/2019 10:17 AM, Zahid Rahman wrote:
> Open source and community doesn't  have to mean *crap*   but it is free.

You don't have to contribute and, likewise, you shouldn't expect support
... because, as you have indicated, it is free.

- G

--
siamo arrivati sani e salvi

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