.oO - Translation - Mailing list pgsql-www

Hello,

let me first tell what I want and then explain the background.
Before it will be misunderstood again - This is not blaming Google.

I know we discussed and rejected this topic already years ago - but look 
why I think
we can't ignore it any longer. And yes - also me always was against 
translations -
but Google forced me to change my mind.

I would like to start the project: "translating web pages and docs"
In my case of course into German.
I know it will get a long term project.

I am not sure how much our pages are prepared for it - how much
effort it would be to prepare the project.

I am thinking about having something like postgresql.org/de/
When page not is translated - or out of date - then English should be shown
instead.

Why am I getting these mad idea?

I think Google is the most often used search engine.

I am googling a lot for postgresql + special detail.

Since round about two weeks I recognized that Google got more aggressive
on language topic.

My OS is talking German per default. My Firefox is set to German per 
default.

I can't remember if default English was second or if I once manual added it.
The darkness of my brain said - that I needed to load English as 2nd 
default once.

Anyway - Already setting - first German then English - reacts ugly.

And consider - I am talking about Linux here. It might be worser on Windows.
Also consider, when you install the browser it takes default language 
from OS.
When you want to change it - you need to do it manually. Most users 
won't do it.

Since round about two weeks - when I Google for postgresql + special
detail - I get the old German Handbook from Peter as first hit. Afair the
Handbook was for PostgreSQL 7.2 or 7.3.

After that - depending on what exactly I searched - it can happen that I
get "dubious" forums and pages from companies first.

When Google can't find something originally in German - or better after it
find the handbook and the others - it translates the English pages by 
automatism.
And believe me - the translations are better then in 198x but you still 
will see lots
of horrible translated points.

You then can click a button to show the page in original (English) language.

Of course personally me helps herself by just changing Firefox settings
to first English then German. But that isn't what a normal user is doing.

I would bet that you will find similar phenomena on other "bigger"
languages like French, Italian, Spanish, and so on. Maybe not yet on
Swedish or Dutch.

I am able to understand Google - they just want to provide as much in
your native language as possible. And their automatic translations aren't
that ugly.

Anyway - for me this means - we finally need to react.

Better we translate - then letting Google doing it.
Also, better we translate - so that we will show up as first resulted 
row on searching
again.

For German, I am sure I will find some volunteers helping me.

Also since youngest past Google is listing postgresql.de, Peter Handbook 
and lots of
other native German stuff like mad forums or advertising pages long 
before postgresql.org
pages.

In past it was "newest first" - which always let postgresql.org show on top.
Now it is "native language first" - doesn't matter how outdated or 
irrelevant the stuff is.

I fear this translation "delusion" will get more and more worse for us. 
People will
find bad advises in forums much earlier then good advises from our home 
page.

I like the way how we translate messages.
If not exist - or outdated - then throw out the English message.

Let me say - I made some bad experiences when German and English docs is
independent.

Is it possible to prepare something like this?
Of course not only for German - I bet our French folk would like it too.

Susanne
P.S.: My favorite automatic translation from 198x still is "no space 
left on device" -
It got translated to something like "no universe on the left side of 
your device".

-- 
Susanne Ebrecht
Bielefeld