Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] Tablespaces - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql@mohawksoft.com [mailto:pgsql@mohawksoft.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 9:39 AM
> To: Tom Lane
> Cc: Dann Corbit; Zeugswetter Andreas SB SD;
> jearl@bullysports.com; tswan@idigx.com; Bruce Momjian; Greg
> Stark; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL Win32 port list
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Tablespaces
>
>
> > "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com> writes:
> >> I expect that one year after release, there will be ten
> times as many
> >> PostgreSQL systems on Win32 as all combined versions now on UNIX
> >> flavors
> >
> > I surely hope not.  Especially not multi-gig databases.  The folks
> > running those should know better than to use Windows, and
> if they do
> > not, I'll be happy to tell them so.

I know better than to tell people to change their operating system.
Linux is a great OS, and people familiar with it will do exceedingly
well.  But there are 40 million computers sold in a year, most of which
have some flavor of Windows installed.  People know how to use and
administer them, and they have all their applications in Windows.  They
are not going to change for ideological reasons.  Also, it isn't just
DBAs that need to implement database systems.  Suppose, for instance,
that I want to write an accounting package.  I can use PostgreSQL as a
base and save my customers thousands of dollars.  If I tell them, "Now,
you need to reformat your machine and install Linux" that would not be
very popular.  But they don't even need to know about the database.  And
they should not have to care about the OS.  A database and an operating
system are both things to help get work done.  Believe it or not, lots
of large companies depend on Windows OS.

Personally, I am technology neutral.  My position is "use whatever you
like."

> This is a prejudice that we should try to avoid. Yes, Windows
> is lacking on so many levels, but that really isn't the point.

Every OS has advantages and disadvantages.  The applications for Windows
are many and mature.  The tool sets available for Linux are extensive
and usually free.  If you want real 24x7x365.25 then MVS cannot be beat.
The file versioning and protections of OpenVMS are something that all
operating systems should have modeled.

> A good box running Win2K or XP Server, with no internet
> connectivity, and no user applications, can really perform
> and be reliable. Would I choose this? Hell no, but there are
> HUGE amount of people who either don't know any better or
> have no real choice.

And there are knowledgeable people who understand Windows, Linux and
many other operating systems who choose Windows because it is the best
choice for their company.

> The REAL bonus here is getting PostgreSQL in their hands.
> Right now, for the small to medium business running Windows,
> Microsoft has a virtual lock with SQL Server. SQL Server is
> expensive and a real PAIN.

It is expensive and a multi-user system ramps the cost.  But it is
easier to administer than PostgreSQL.  Hopefully, autovacuum will remove
most of this discrepancy.

> Giving Windows users PostgreSQL with a good set of .NET,
> ODBC, and JDBC drivers loosens the Microsoft stranglehold,
> just a little bit. If they develop their application with
> MSSQL, there is a good chance it will never use any open
> source software and always run on Windows. If they develop
> their application using PostgreSQL, there is a better
> likelyhood that other open source projects will be used, AND
> that should the requirement be to upgrade the system, a wider
> range of OS and hardware options will present themselves.

Microsoft dominates because they offer real value (the world is not
completely full of idiot CEOs -- they make decisions based on profit).
The open source community is closing the gap, but it has a long way to
go.  I don't see Microsoft as the dark side of the force or anything.
Actually, the approach of PostgreSQL and ACE is (too me) the most
superior.  The GPL approach is far too confining, and getting a black
box that will be a terrible mystery if it breaks are not nearly so
pleasant.

Instead of telling people how to do their jobs, I suggest the approach
of providing the best possible tools and letting them decide how to use
them.