Re: Web site gripes - Mailing list pgsql-general

On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Norman J. Clarke wrote:

> You do an excellent job Vince. By and large the website is awesome, and I
> love some of the newest additions such as the interactive docs. But you
> should listen to his gripes and respond in a more polite way. If you think
> he is wrong, then explain why.
>
> Responding with a personal attack is not helpful at all and seems really
> out of sync with the tone of the rest of the list. When I saw his first
> email I cringed because from reading your previous posts I knew you were
> going to respond exactly as you did.

I'll try to keep this plain and simple.

If you (anyone) have suggestions for the website, I'm all ears.  But if
you're looking to be blown off, insulted, treated rudely, etc. then you
need to preface it with a bunch of whining gripes that have little to
no foundation.  Make yourself look as clueless as possible.  If you're
going to go looking for things to bitch about as your lead-in to the
suggestions you have, don't get upset if I tell you where to go.  If I
did it to you I'd expect the same result.  On the flip side of the coin,
I'm not one for praises either.

Now then, even tho you can find it in the archives, I'll let everyone
in on some of the reasons for the site's layout and why some things
happen and some don't.

Documentation:  The release docs and the development docs (the ones that
don't apply to the released version - things not there, things working
differently, etc) have to be kept as far apart as possible.  Time and
time again I/we'd get email from people crabbing about how they depended
on a specific feature that's in the documentation that doesn't work -
only to find out they're reading the devel docs and using the release
version or even an older version of the software.

In the release docs section all of the indexes are created with a
couple of scripts so a bunch of editing doesn't have to take place
if things are added (such as a pdf version) or removed.  Just run
the script.  This happens alot at release time for one reason or
another.  When you click on English docs, you get a page that has
links for the different versions with the current release at the
top.  True, they're links to anchors on the same page but they're
not visible at that time unless your browser's broken or you have
your browser set to some rather large size.  The anchors are far
enough away that it shouldn't matter what order they're in.

In the developer docs some work is still needed there to make it
simpler.

Mailing List Info:  This too is separated between stuff that users
are interested in and what developers are interested in.  Why?  Partly
because too many people were getting confused about what lists they
should be reading.  Imagine, the hackers list was too advanced for a
few folks.

What's the difference between a developer and a user?   A developer
is someone that's actually working on the PostgreSQL sources either
making additions, fixing bugs, working on docs, etc. for future
releases.  A user is one who uses, administrates, develops apps that
use PostgreSQL, etc. typically in the current release.

If someone has a better suggestion for names for developer and user,
I'm all ears - but note the comments in the first paragraph (not the
first sentence).

Why Aren't Betas Announced?   I tried using red, red bold, red bold and
larger font size but too many people didn't see it and complained rather
loudly that this version they found on the website didn't work and they
lost their data.  Never mind the fact it was beta, had beta in the
filename, said on the website in big bold red letters that it was beta,
if it was there, it should have been safe to use.

Why isn't the webmaster's address on the website?   If you made it this
far on the internet that you're using, deploying, developing, etc. an
open source database then webmaster@postgresql.org should be a no-brainer.
When it was there I got 60-70 HotBabes/AcceptCreditCards/GetALoan/etc...
spams each and every day.  Now it's finally down to about 10/day.  If,
however, anyone wants me to forward some of the spam I get to them 'cuze
they like getting that kinda stuff, I'll be more than happy to share!! :)

BTW, I'm planning on a new look for the website in the not too distant
future - but with graduations, weddings, etc. at this time of the year
there's no set date.  Perhaps the new look will satisify some of the
things that folks dislike and/or maybe some of the things will flow
together better, but I still expect that not everyone will be happy and
many will be downright upset about it.   Hmmm, maybe I'll do it in
frames......  Lotsa little frames......     *evil laugh*

Vince.
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